PEC Meeting at Olivet Moravian Church
Council of Churches ─ Transcript
(August 8, 2004)

Time Code
From CD Transcript

CD 2 – 4:43 Rev. Bob Sawyer: “There were some questions about the, uh, Council of
Churches, the World Council of Churches, and, and National Council of Churches. Uh, um, one of the questions was stated this way, uh, ‘How could we as followers of Christ, based on the statements pushed upon us by the World Council of Churches and the Baar Statement uh truly stand up for what Christ taught us’. A couple, uh, comments about the question itself. Uh, and, and part of it is the phrase statements ‘pushed upon us by the World Council of Churches, uh,
5:17 World Council of Churches doesn’t speak for Moravian Church. 5:24 Statements of the World Council of Churches are statements made by Council which, which are not binding on the Moravian Church. Uh, we are members of the World Council of Churches and in my opinion that that’s been a very, very valuable thing for us.
5:39 But, just because World Council of Churches says something doesn’t mean it’s the position of, of the Moravian Church.
5:50 Baar Statement in, in particular uh, is something that was drawn up in January of 1990.
5:55 And, and this is from the introduction of, of the Baar Statement, it says ‘it is hoped that the statement will help to animate and facilitate the discussion of these important issues as we face, face the Seventh Assembly in Canberra in February 1991’. That, that was the World Council has an assembly of all its members every seven years. And the Baar Statement was recognizing that uh, that because of pluralism and diversity in the world new questions were coming up. And the Baar Statement was uh, to raise issues and questions to get people at the assembly thinking and talking. It was not intended to be uh, an absolute pronouncement. It certainly was not pronouncement for the Moravian Church. But it was, it was rather something to uh, in their words to animate and facilitate discussion of, of important issues, pump priming uh, as it were.
6:55 What are our Moravian goals and objectives, another question, what are our Moravian goals and objectives leading to consolidation with other churches, other churches for purpose of a one church denomination?
7:04 None. We, we don’t have any. Uh, neither does the World Council of Churches or the National Council of Churches. Uh, we have very clearly said that we want to maintain our denominational identity.
7:20 Decades ago, uh, the Moravian Church toyed with, with the idea of becoming part of the ‘Consultation of Church Union’, which 30 – 40 years ago was an effort which was giving consideration for the merger of a lot of denominations. That concept has long since died and the Moravian Church has never said that, that we wanted to consider uh, merger with another
7:46 denomination or that, there, there, is no movement to, uh, to amalgamate everybody into a one, one world wide church at this point. Uh, if there were, the Moravian Church would, you know, would not be a part of that movement. We want to be in fellowship with Christians, but uh, uh, in terms the purpose of a one church denomination, uh, that, that isn’t on our agenda or ah, the World Council.
8:18 In fact, about 5 or 6 years ago the World Council of Churches did some, uh, uh, reevaluating of it’s basic nature and purpose and came up with a document that was called ‘A Common Understanding and Vision’ and the thrust of that document and the self understanding of the World Council of Churches has been to de-emphasize what the World Council as a Council does, and to emphasize rather what the Council can help member churches and denominations do. The emphasis, shifting away
8:55 from the World Council of Churches as, as, a major structure to the plaa, uhh, to the emphasis where the World council of Churches is the means to help uh, other denominations and churches come together for whatever, uh ,kind of mutual interaction and fellowship uh, they want to have. The… uh, the,… yeah, the
9:18 The basis of the World Council of Churches which is the statement that all member churches accept before they become a member is the following: ‘The World Council of Churches is a fellowship of churches, not, not a church, but a fellowship of churches, which confess the Lord Jesus Christ as God and Savior according to the scriptures, and therefore seek to ah, seek to fulfill together their common calling to the glory of the one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’. And, ah, when the World Council of Churches was uh, was founded, here’s, here’s what uh, one of the founders said about it; he said ‘the basis, is an affirmation of the Christian faith of the participating churches, not a creedal test to judge churches or persons, it’s an affirmation of the Incarnation and the Atonement’. That’s the central, central idea of the World Council of Churches, churches which affirm the Incarnation and the Atonement. Churches which affirm that God became one of us, was, was ah, was born of Mary and became a human being, God himself took on human flesh, and the Atonement, Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins, Atonement came to us and that’s the core of the Christian message. Ah, the Council desires to be a fellowship of those churches which accept these truths, so and, and so forth. And uh, there’s even one statement from the very early days that… I don’t know where I high,.. highlighted it, but it said very explicitly the uh the World Council of Churches is not and never should be a super church, so that, that just is, is not part of the agenda.”
11:10 Ah, so the question was in light the stated, another question, ‘In light,… in light of the stated agenda of the World Council of Churches and National Council of Churches how can the PEC continue to encourage financial support. Well, as, as you know, financial support uh, is going to be uh, requested not required items, uh, of the congregations in the Southern Province
11:35 “And, uh, I don’t agree with, with every program, uh, in the National Council, World Council, but I consider it to be very important that, that we be there and be part of the uh, uh, in fellowship with those other Christians, uh, those Christian foundations, and that’s the stated agenda of, of both the National Council and World Council.
12:03 Shall we keep moving?”
Relationship with the Episcopal Church,…
Graham is part of it…